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Creating Waves of Awareness

Moved from thread on study of materia medica.

Two themes that are running parallel:

1. Place of newer trends in homeopathy focusing primarily on mental side (symptoms, state, central delusion)
  • Why we need more now when we have enough from masters and stalwarts?
  • Is it sensible to leave the obvious (objective physical) in pursuit of conceptual central delusion or essence?
  • Are there some protocols and guidelines to prevent whimsical provings and listings being added and confusing the trustworthy repertories from the masters? 
2.Unprejudiced Observation is the essential condition (attitude) defined for physician by the founder. But it seems to have been taken for granted by successive generations of homeopaths that if you are a homeopath you become unprejudiced observer. There has never been a school in homeopathy that facilitates experiential dropping of prejudice. Most of the teachers have exclusively focused on passing concepts and theories.

Relevant postings from other thread are pasted below.
All are welcome to participate.

Jonathan Shore MD had posted this paper Salt of Essence:

Full paper is attached as a world document, at the bottom of this post.

He responded further to Dr Nikhil and Manoj:

My primary teacher was George Vithoulkas who I believe it is fair to say was a Kentian - that is in the lineage of Hering and Kent. Thus I have had little exposure to the methods of Boger or Boenninghausen.

Dr. Nikhil has written
“the concept of central delusion is just one part of the drug..and one way of understanding the remedy...but it seems people are looking it as the only way of understanding the remedy.” Of course this is the problem, not the idea of central delusion, rather the fact of considering that there is only one path to understanding.

The way I picture the situation is as if we have a bunch of keys, quite a few keys in fact, and each case is a lock to be opened. Now in the beginning the keyhole may be quite large and we have to go through all the keys, big and small, to see which one fits. After years of practice one begins to recognize the type of lock and finds the suitable key in a
much more rapid fashion.

Reasoning from these principles the necessity of a solid foundation, a well built and coherent structure on top of that and an appreciation of the need for a long and careful study to master a discipline which has the possibility of producing such incredible transformations in people. To put it another way, the price of such possibilities is high and demands a corresponding suffering on the part of the practitioner.

Now having said all this there is another principle which I feel is really important - I can make these demands on myself, and on any who volunteer for the process but I have no right and cannot make this demand on anyone else. People are going to do what they do according to their level of understanding and ability.

In this time there is so much information, so much data, so much intellectual knowledge that it would appear that this has actually resulted in the problem of attention deficit disorder. All this flood of information is taken as having equal value, that is, there is no
structure, no hierachy which can distinguish which information is more valuable, is closer to the center, or to the truth. Thus people cannot discriminate, either with their minds or their feelings which information has been arrived at through careful and conscientious study, and which has just appeared through happenstance and may or may not be connected to something solid.

Now there are many who disagree with my methods of prescribing, who feel they have better answers for the situation and so on. I have no interest in convincing anyone of the error of their ways, of setting them right, of proving that, in fact, my methods are the right ones and so on.

What I am interested in is, as I have been doing, in making my views public so that if there is someone else who resonates with this, who has a similar approach, then we can converse and share the facts of our experience.

One other point for Dr Nikhil who wrote
“ the idea is to find the imprint of the physical sensation or complaint in the mind...”

Actually as a vitalist, as one who takes the primacy of the vital force as a guiding principle, I would put it exactly opposite

The idea is to find the imprint of the mind in the physical sensation or complaint.

Thus the establishment of the underlying attitude which informs the decisions, hopes, fears and ultimately the simple, small everyday choices of the individual is to be searched for as the primary goal. The verification that this goal has been reached is to be found in the imprint of these energies on the physical body, that the physical
symptoms correspond to this pattern, form one whole.

Of course this is the ideal and one needs to accept and take what one is given, but for me this is the measure, this is what I strive for.

I think it might be possible to have further dialogue on this, as long the discrimination between what is theory and what is the experience of our practice is kept clearly in mind.

Manoj wrote:

Every great teacher has talked about it but no one actually teaches you to be unprejudiced observer!

Of course there is so much that can be said about this. What I have to add here just barely scratches the surface, and at the same time goes to the heart of the matter in relation to the lack of unity inside modern man

I do not believe it is possible to be unprejudiced in just one area of one’s perceptions and hold all sorts of prejudices and judgements in other areas of ones life, both outer in relation to others, and inner in relation to oneself. Thus to be without prejudice, to exercise discrimination yet not judge implies a very high level of moral/spiritual development which we may strive for without having much expectation of ever achieving.

Another way of looking at the question is that true impartiality might be one indicator of true health. ( health is not to be defined as the absence of certain energies but rather as the presence of energies of a certain quality )

Dr Nikhil Kambli's response:
@Jonathan Shore MD
" the idea is to find the imprint of the physical sensation or complaint in the mind...”
by this i imply to find the pathology and the pathogenesis at the physical level and representation at mental

eg: broncho constriction in asthma at physical level to find the corresponding level of constriction with the onset of complaint either due to physical or mental stress at the level of mind irritation at the level of skin find the corresponding irritation at the level of mind.and to study the pathogenesis through and through here

1. most of the patients come to us with physical complaints and most of them are unaware of what homeopathy is... so they are more definite in describing physical symptom
2.with the diagnosis in hand we can actually find.the pathogenesis of disease again objective and definite.

Jonathan Shore:

Thank you Dr Nikhil for your response. Yes, I think it is not so helpful to insist on one direction or the other - whether we look for the mind in the body or the body in the

We have to begin with what we are given. In the end it is the pattern of symptoms, their very coexistence in a single place ( the patient) that is the main unarguable fact.

Even though it does seem obvious, could you please give me a concrete example or two, that is expand on what you have already indicated regarding "“ the idea is to find the imprint of the physical sensation or complaint in the mind...” just so I can be sure that I have understood your thought. Thanks for you willingness to continue these conversations

Manoj responds to Jonathan:
Thanks, Jonathan,
I would like to engage further in the dialogue, in the spirit of mutual inquiry.

I personally resonate with what you say about information explosion and attention deficit disorder. 15 years ago, my inner discontentment brought me to taste and test homeopathy. It was an inner drive for a meaningful process that is more than just arbitrary intellectual interventions of western medicine. Homeopathy tasted just right for a thirsty soul and tested as a far superior approach of health care.

But there were so many contemporary teachers on the scene, and so much information and clamouring that I needed a break to maintain personal sanity. My felt sense was that all the information is not equal.

I was struck by the demand to be unprejudiced that Hahnemann puts before any worthy homeopath. I realized that unless one brings sanity and unity to one's own confused and fragmented life one can not be honest in his healing venture. I think, that since then, I have been an ardent student of this self dynamics.

I understand that if I am not free of judgment and prejudices in other more private areas of life, it is not possible to be unprejudiced while taking a case.

Hahnemann cautions the homeopathic practitioner to be unprejudiced and of sound senses to truthfully portray the deviation in vital force ie totality of disease. If I am not free of my opinions, theories and experiences, then, all i will do is to impose my systems, theories and designs on what is given to us.

I sense your humility in stating that you can make these demands on yourself and on someone who volunteers for the process but not on anyone else. I bow down before your wisdom to leave it to personal discrimination of everyone to choose what feels right. You experience freedom once you make your stance public.

But, I am really wondering why people do what they do, as you are saying that they will do what they do according to their understanding and ability.

Do they exhaust their ability by doing what they do? Or, their ability (potential) remains untapped when they don't question their own ways and beliefs?

Jonathan suggests:
I think we need to initiate a different thread as we have strayed quite beyond the bounds of materia medica. Could you come up with a suitable title and paste the relevant material from this one into the new thread and then I can respond there ?

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Replies to This Discussion

Jonathan to DR Nikhil:

Thank you Dr Nikhil for your response.
Yes, I think it is not so helpful to insist on one direction or the other - whether we look for the mind in the body or the body in the mind.

We have to begin with what we are given.
In the end it is the pattern of symptoms, their very coexistence in a single place ( the patient) that is the main unarguable fact.

Even though it does seem obvious, could you please give me a concrete example or two, that is expand on what you have already indicated regarding "“ the idea is to find the imprint of the physical sensation or complaint in the mind...” just so I can be sure that I have understood your thought.
Thanks for you willingness to continue these conversations

Dr Nikhil responds:


eg 1: if the patient is having headaches and if he pulls hair, bangs the head ,rolls on the floor ..we see the violence in the character of the headaches but more importantly violence in the reaction..of that individual
so here i try to find the violence in the mental make up of the individual.
so here i would get the first important rubric. violence.

eg2. if the complaint is slow in nature , the pathology involved is slow i would also try to look into the slowness of the indvidual , his reactions and or probably "phlegmatic" temperament.
if there is a mismatch in the nature, speed ,complaint of the individual and what i am getting while exploring the mind then i am missing something

eg3. back pain of acute PID(prolapsed intervetebral disc, slipped disc) where there is severe spasm or when the muscles are "tense" or they are trying "pathophysiologically to protect a tender inflammed disc or where there is "back breaking" pain involved. you try to find similar episodes in the history of the individual.
disc pain is associated with stress...and a book by kirkaldy willis called managing lower back a cycle between stress muscle and spasm and back pain in one of the chapters..
but sadly enough i couldn't get any e-copy of that book

eg4 : materia medica.... china...simple modality
you find the reflection of the modality in kent repertory section mind.
Anger caressing, from : Chin.
( though i am against this kind of theorising) but yes the reflection is definately seen

eg5 : book : Boger synoptic full of this kind of application
the first words of the drug ignatia "ERRATIC, CONTRADICTORY OR SPASMODIC EFFECTS" you can apply to any sphere in the entire drug..
right from mind to the physical complaints..

This isn't the only doesn't matter how we approach what matters is that we get the correct understanding..of the patient..
though i would like to know further and understand further..about it..
and thanks again for your willingness to continue these conversations..because you are much experienced and done a lot many things...i am just a neonate :)

it is just the more i see of the "newer" methods it is further is also amazing the claims us homeopaths make...we need a solid foundation...otherwise it is like building a castle of salt on the beach on sand (no solid base and completely soluble)with ever increasing waterlevel ...(pressure from scientific community)

waiting for your response..

aude sapere..
Dear Nikhil, Jonathan, Manoj & others,

I have been watching your discussions for last few days. Very interesting and timely as well.

I would like to share my views here, if no objection.

There are two patients -

Now, we all know that carbuncle is a very painful disease and more so when it occurs on the nape of the neck ( due to lack of much space there ).

Both of our patients are suffering from carbuncle with identical physical symptoms, but in mental aspect they differ each other almost in an antagonistic way.

Obviously, these two patients will not deserve the same medicine. We all know that, but the question is what would be our approach to select the medicines for them?

To my understanding,

For the 1st case, as because he is a little boy, and experiencing severe kind of pain of which he can not cope up, he is banging his head on the floor, running about the room or clings to those around. All of them are quite common to his age and to his disease also, as he expresses his pain in that way. Therefore, I will not give much stress to this mental aspect ( although they are quite evident ) and will try to find for other general level symptoms (may be other mentals or physicals) to base my prescription.

For the 2nd one, as because he is a little boy, and experiencing severe kind of pain, but the peculiarity lies in his mental sphere. Look, how he is reacting, whenever he is asked about his complaints. Isn't that peculiar enough from a boy of his age? And therefore shows us the individuality of his from others. So, this boy's mental aspect is obviously, a SYMPTOM. I will surely give the prime importance to it for analysis of the case.

Therefore, first of all, we have to understand whether it is a symptom or not. We must not give stress upon it as because it merely falls under the category of mental symptom, without judging the depth of it in respect of the case in hand.

Thanks & regards.................................ARINDAM
Dear Arindam,

Thanks for joining the discussion..

I agree with your reasoning.
In the first case, I will be curious to understand the pervasiveness of violence. is it limited and incidental with this carbuncle or has other expressions? Sure, expressing pain in a painful condition is common. And, not necessarily individualizing. So, look for yet unexplored generals and others.

The, second case, saying well when in such seemingly painful condition is very unique and requires attention.

I agree that we should not take things on their face value alone. Rather, it is good to ask what is outstanding, individual and thus needing to be cured.

To do this, I need to be aware of my own habitual patterns in practice.

Prejudices may creep in the form of my mental engagement with last patient. My own unresolved issues. My reaction to the persona of the patient (age, sex, appearance, paying capacity, fat, thin, ugly, beautiful etc etc). My experience with a similar case. The first symptom I encounter. My favorite remedy. My favorite approach. Etc.
@Manoj SachDeva
Sure, expressing pain in a painful condition is common.

yes , what matters is how it is expressed it gives an insight to the mind and basic disposition ...or change in it.........see the HOW VIOLENCE IS EXPRESSED BY THE FIRST CHILD...

the first child exhibits through expression of violence
while the other child is it .is...inhibited..

so , wouldn't the remedy in both cases differ??
it does..with every one :)
but we have to break free......

i am probably biased that it is very difficult to be unbiased :))

we should have smileys :)
Yes, Dr Nikhil
We probably should have smileys and courage to own that I need to take my lessons.

When I hear you saying.....

it does..with every one :)
but we have to break free......

i am probably biased that it is very difficult to be unbiased :))

I feel there is much in between the lines. I ask myself what is its extended meaning to me.
it does..with every one :)
but we have to break free......

You know.. it feels that the moment I shift the issue to every one, it kind of feels that the urgency for my own moment is dissipated! Like I turn my eyes away. It seems like I am laughing and trivializing a need that I actually know to be critical. Can I say being frivolous?

I know I am lacking the political delicacy (diplomacy) in saying so.. but, I invite you to sense what else is there when you say it again. (I don't want to be analytical and fix a rubric... laughing over serious matter ha..ha..)

I think that We can never break free. It is an individual opportunity/challenge for each one of us. And, it can begin only when I catch myself being unaware and actually see its impact.

Probably the difficulty is unconscious... in the resistance that does not approve of this radical transformation. Leaving prejudice?... may feel very threatening... my identity.. the way of being... is on the line. Being questioned. And, then I does not know what life will be like when I drop my opinions and judgments. Not knowing brings fear of the unknown.

But, one needs to begin where one is. With the resistance, probably. Each one has responsibility for oneself. As Jonathan says that one can make these demands on oneself and only on willing co-travelers.
you mentioned
"For the 1st case, as because he is a little boy, and experiencing severe kind of pain of which he can not cope up, he is banging his head on the floor, running about the room or clings to those around. All of them are quite common to his age and to his disease also, as he expresses his pain in that way. Therefore, I will not give much stress to this mental aspect ( although they are quite evident ) and will try to find for other general level symptoms (may be other mentals or physicals) to base my prescription."

Aren't you missing the basic disposition which is right infront of you..........banging the head on the floor or running around the room isn't it quite evident we are looking at the basic dispostion of the child...
the violence marked along with the the remedy would be quite clear......wouldn't remedies like tarentula C , Merc etc come in your mind...

in the 2nd case , yes it is quite clear that the basic disposition is quite evident..that the ..indicating a tolerant , mild , disposition ..

finally, how do we decide on what guidelines what is normal reaction for any one at what age for what disease........if we set forth such guidelines we wouldn't be able to pick up basic disposition.....

imagine a nail goes in feet of 10 people...all adult male about 40 years... what is the normal reaction expected at that age...and how many would that
on what criteria is the normal reaction based??????
so there would be no fixed criteria................
I have a few moments free and would like to add something here.
In a way this is where the symptom and the ' prejudice ' of the observer come together in what I believe Manoj is getting at. In this case, and in any case, the final place to turn is inside myself.
How would i react to this situation?
To what extent is my reaction based on the fact that I am stoic, to what extent is this reaction based on the fact that I cannot stand pain?

Now if I know myself in these aspects I can evaluate based on my reaction by adding or subtracting from it according to my disposition.

Having done this I can then understand to what extent the patients reaction is appropriate and thus common or extreme and thus pointing towards the strange, rare and peculiar for that particular situation.

This may appear as unscientific yet I believe that this is part of the true science of self knowledge which is the primary requirement for unprejudiced observation.

Just because none of us knows ourselves with such exactitude in no way negates the necessity of this knowledge.

It is not the patient who needs knowledge, insight etc, it is the practitioner.
Dear Nikhil,

Let me ask you something...

A little boy came to your clinic for the treatment. When you were taking his case you had watched that he was using very slang & obscene words frequently at the time of answering your questions.....

We all know there is a rubric "ABUSIVE"....

On further inquiry you are informed that the boy resides in a very poor, uncultured slum area of your city. Everyday since his childhood, he is witnessing his parents, relatives and neighbors use foul, obscene languages when they quarrel or fight with each other. Slowly & slowly, he also learned this abusive language and uses quite often, even in front of his parents. He never faced any kind of objections from them, either. Rather some of his neighbors might have encouraged him to do so. He is never ashamed of it, even.

Knowing this context, are you still in the favor of the rubric- "ABUSIVE" for this case?

I'm sure Nikhil will have his own reply.
I on the other hand do not wish to pass this opportunity by to make a point concerning:

Strange, Rare and Peculiar

which i feel is quite misunderstood and mostly used in a very restrictive way.

My thought is that it can be applied to any symptom in any situation in which the manifestation is completely uncharacteristic for that situation.

Thus in this case ABUSIVE would constitute only a very minor confirmation, whereas if the child spoke beautiful cultured language the whole impression would be so bizarre that in my mind it would enter the realm of strange rare and peculiar and become the main guiding symptom irrespective of the pathology
Ooooh. this is so clever.

Kindly go through both the egs:
1. a child responding violently to pain ( which you say is the expected reaction in all cases of children in pain)

2. a child who has been brought up in abusive environment...being abusive..
in case no.1 it is a REACTION TO A STIMULUS ( he hasn't been brought up in a particular manner to react violently)

in case no 2 .you see both nature and nurture at play...development of temperament and disposition......
which is the most important in case taking

kindly go through aphorism no 5 of organon of medicine....6th edtion by Dr.Hahnemann

§ 5

Useful to the physician in assisting him to cure are the particulars of the most probable exciting cause of the acute disease, as also the most significant points in the whole history of the chronic disease, to enable him to discover its fundamental cause, which is generally due to a chronic miasm. In these investigations, the ascertainable physical constitution of the patient (especially when the disease is chronic), his moral and intellectual character, his occupation, mode of living and habits, his social and domestic relations, his age, sexual function, etc., are to be taken into consideration.

the moment i expect "normal" reactions in a particular environment...... I WOULD BE PREJUDICED a child has to be afraid of dark is it expected in all children ...if he is not then it becomes characteristic and if it then it doesn't????? etc etc then how will i determine his temperament..
if a boss is dominating then it would be normal wouldn't it be or would it be.....but if he is abusive ..and violent with it...... wouldn't that domination have a significance

giving importance to a particular trait is most important..
especially while understanding nature and nurture......
to understand a particular temperament and disposition ......and change in it..if possible....
the idea is to put it in context to the given case, miasm and how much importance to give it in the final analysis

the moment i stop expecting and interpreting "normal" reactions is the moment i stop being prejudiced...........................................................................

aude sapere


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